A conversation With Lucía Rayas Velasco

Begüm Zorlu

In the last days of 2020, I had a chance to talk with the Mexican academic and translator Lucia Rayas, whose work focuses on contemporary Mexican history and gender studies. She is also a feminist activist and an experienced translator of books like “the Politics of Banishment and Exile in Latin America” (La política del destierro y el exilio en América Latina) and “Gender Justice and Legal Pluralities: Latin American and African Perspectives” (Justicia de género y pluralidades legales: perspectivas latinoamericanas y africanas). Speaking to Lucia was extremely encouraging for me, as it created a shared knowledge, elaboration on cases, and experiences. It was very interesting to find commonalities about Mexico and Turkey during our dialogue.

Lucia’s work has focused on different aspects of gender studies and Mexican history. One of the questions that came from her work was: “How do women position themselves in the face of war?” This was and still is a very important question that needs further investigation. After our dialogue I came to think more of this question, more of the consequences of that agency, the types of transformation in different contexts, different circumstances.

In her contribution at Armadas, Lucia looked at how women still had played traditional roles even in guerrilla movements. As other theorists (e.g. Enloe, D’Amico among others) have argued, she contends that “sexualized domination is part of the ideological construction of the military” and looked at the ways in which women’s bodies/sexuality is controlled specifically when in the army, be it a national armed forces, or a guerrilla organization.

Consequently, I wanted us to start our dialogue by looking at what can be said about the role of war in shaping women’s identities? How can we turn our lens more to women’s agency in conflict studies? What are the ways in which women exist as agent?

Lucia: In the literature there tends to be an emphasis on women’s victimhood in war situations and little attention paid to the roles they play. Traditionally there is a link made at the symbolic level that equates the idea of women –motherhood, care-taking- with that of the nation, and the nation needs to be protected. This is the root of the strongest opposition to women taking part in any armed conflict as combatants, though there are other arguments historically put forth. Regardless, women do take part in war situations, often beyond their socially obvious role of civil population (as opposed to armed one).

My research looks at women in various armed contexts. Initially I focused on deciphering what, if anything, changed when women opted for armed participation, be it in an informal army such as a guerrilla movement, or a formal long institutionalized army. My question was whether this participation, in time, effected any change in women’s role in society and the perception of “their place” within it. This research focused on El Salvador and the US. guerrilla army in the former, a regular army in the latter.

In undertaking this investigation, one of the questions that first arose was that of why would women choose to join the military. In the case of the USA, some women decide on enrolling as an educational option: there is a programme in the US that gives you college education in exchange for a couple of years in the army. Other women’s motivation stemmed from need, lacking decent jobs or working conditions. On the other hand, in the case of the guerrilla army, most women joined out of an ideological commitment to fight their government. By becoming guerrillas and joining a popular army, they turned into militants against the regime. In neither of those cases women as agents act as victimised. In El Salvador, the idea of women-guerrillas became more common-place, but, as seen in testimonies, not exempt of surprise and even admiration at their prowess. In the US, the idea of women-soldiers has become more naturalized in society at large. It is extremely interesting that some popular media portrays women soldiers as equal to men. There was an article I read ten years ago which was titled “Mom Goes to War,” which goes on to say “it is alright, the nation can go to war”, if you translate it symbolically.

In the case of El Salvador, a civil war fought between 1979 and 1992, was settled in negotiations for disarmament and elections. After this process women would not be locked back in their traditionally female roles, despite the fact that the guerrillas fought a revolution that lasted nearly ten years, and then lost. When they went to elections people at large voted for the fascist regime. The agency that a lot of women had experienced as being a part of the guerrilla organizations, whether in the armed front or in other positions, launched them to create vibrant women’s NGOs with international links. This took place in the context in which Latin America was welcoming feminism. They did not go back. Their agency translated into intense work for women’s rights. In El Salvador today, women’s NGOs are relevant, covering a large array of areas. Their work is ever more important as El Salvador faces serious challenges, such as gang violence, a by-product of the years of civil warfare.

To experience violence, war, never leaves a person untouched, be it a woman or a man. Identities and agencies are shaped by these events in all sorts of manners. Women who partake as combatants play an active role in the violent context and will be shaken by it. The turn this takes in peace-time is multi-faceted, and will also depend on the social response women face. We have spoken, even if superficially, about two cases I researched.

Like with everything else, one should look at history. WWII is a conflict in which women participated vastly, be it in the home-front or in the line of combat, usually in feminine roles like health-care and provision of food. Much feminist analysis stems from dissecting that international conflagration. For example Cynthia Enloe, a theorist specializing in militarism and gender, wrote a piece called “How to Militarise a Can of Soup.” This piece dwells into the many ways in which militarism trickles into everyday life and becomes part and parcel of the way a society enmeshed in armed conflict reinforces gender roles as militarization demands for men to behave in a “manly” fashion –as war expects heroism, bravery, honour/all male characteristics at a symbolic level- and for women to underscore their expected traditional behaviour.

Since 2006, when the president of Mexico then called the war on drugs, our country has become more and more militarised. The present government (since 2018), despite coming from the “left,” has only stressed the military presence by giving the army tasks like the construction of a railway and an airport. Now we are used, as a society, to share the streets with military vans carrying soldiers. For people of my generation — I was born in the 1950s- that was a blow in the face. We were used to the military being there when there was a flood, or a natural disaster, and it was there basically to help people. On the other hand and in a very intimidating manner, it also took care of repressive acts such as quelling armed opposition groups or partaking –surreptitiously- in the illegal squashing of the students’ mobilisations in 1968 and 1971. My heart used to stop with surprise at the sight of the military, but now I am used to it. Today one has to ask oneself what is the relationship of militarisation of our country and femicides. In 1994, the femicide rage began in the North, but it is now all over the place; figures continue to grow.

Begum: Can you talk to us about how militancy as in the case of resistance against authoritarianism in Latin America shifted towards the strengthening of feminism ?

Lucia: It is important to note that we, meaning the feminist women in Latin America of a certain age, tend to come from a militancy background. We have experience in supporting groups against authoritarian regimes in Latin America. In that moment, from our perspective, there was a need to modify our political situation, and there were regional examples to follow. Thus, plenty of women joined different types of groups in “the left” (however vague this may sound now). The reason why I touch upon this is because many of us who come from a leftist militancy, were literally invited to leave the left due to unequal treatment vis-à-vis men, but kept the militancy in our hearts. Just then feminism in the region was picking momentum, and many of us were disappointed at men’s treatment of women in our previous organizations. Sexism, then basically culturally tolerated, was commonplace. Many of us had the experience of being in a party or movement, and then being pushed into working for women’s rights. We were writing the pamphlets, but were also serving the coffee.

Begum: How did the movements build on each other ? What were the discourses that women used and the context-framing that they encountered ?

Lucia: To answer this question, I will present the case of women’s organizations in the South Cone of America: Argentina, Chile, Uruguay. This best illustrates the passage from one militancy to the other. In these countries, the organizations of the left were rather well organized, with strong guerrilla movements which acted –at least in the Argentinian case- both in the country-side and in the cities. Plenty of women participated in all levels of these organizations. As the years went by, the military of these nations continued their repressive anti-insurgent tactics, including “disappearing” and incarcerating many youths. It was the political mobilisation of the mothers of these persons, demanding the government provide information about their children’s whereabouts and safety who, resorting to a human rights discourse, finally created a bridge which, in turn, gave way to women’s and/or feminist organizations (strongly recommend viewing this link). Similar transferences took place elsewhere in the Latin American region but, of course, many women found their way to a feminist or to a women’s rights (not the same thing) agenda through other means. We must once more turn to historic developments to note that these transitions took place fundamentally during the early eighties, when there was a rise in the relevance of human rights and a growth of NGOs, linked to the world-wide move towards neoliberalism, a product of the Washington consensus.

Begum: Can you give us some examples of the trends and solidarity that is going on in Latin America ?

Reproductive rights, particularly abortion (recently passed in Argentima) and sexual orientation or the LGBTQ+ agendas tend to be high in the interests of many groups, together with a vast movement against violence against women. Another discussion present nowadays is that of the participation of women in electoral positions which, despite not guaranteeing necessarily women’s interests, is relevant for gender parity and visibility.

The arena of cultural discourses is also important to tackle today for example due to the US president. His legitimation of women bashing, and generally discrimination, has led to leaving aside signs of respect and political correctness that now must be regained. Another issue of importance is the radicalism we have seen in Latin America and also around the world in the last few years. Young women are out there and they are super radicalised with forceful messages. While these expressions are not to be dismissed and should be understood, what I find in this radicalisation is sometimes a lack of negotiation. I fear that it may become a fire that goes no place.

The School of Philosophy in Mexico’s National University, for example, has been a historical political actor for the longest time. In November 2018 it was taken over by a group of young women who finally gave it up due to the pandemic and the impossibility of keeping sanitary conditions, not because their demands were met, they pointed out. They did not allow any class to take place when occupying the building and their demands seemed extreme as it appeared what they wanted was to take all men out. It started with the Me Too movement, naming all those who had harassed women, in a place where even women assassinations had taken place. It was important to pay attention to their demands and movement. Nevertheless, this radical takeover came at a price: A lot of people lost the chance of finishing their degree, continuing classes, entering the school … We have to look at the long term outcomes of movements. All this radicalisation plays a role throughout history. If this activism cannot be translated into furthering women’s rights, it might be used as a backlash.

Begum: Unfortunately femicide is a topic we discuss both in Turkey and Mexico. You have stated that it has been affiliated with the North of Mexico. Can you reflect on the trajectories of femicides in Mexico ?

There is a common trend in femicides in Turkey and Mexico and it is that the men that women know target them the most. Besides, the media makes you far less sensitive to the issue, when it portrays femicide either in sensationalist ways and when figures are overwhelming. It demands paying serious attention. During the past few months, the pandemic´s lock in has increased domestic violence and with it femicides. Femicides began to be talked about happening in the North of Mexico, particularly in Chihuahua, in the 1990s. Over there and for some time it was said to be a rite of passage for men in the drug trade organisations. Later femicide was found everywhere, these days particularly in some neglected areas north of Mexico City. Our president does not want to keep track of femicides and wants to label this crime as homicide, which would mean a step back in the struggle against it. Sadly femicide is not only limited to drug violence. It is also a more generalised phenomenon. Twenty years ago, I never thought we would live in a place with such violence. Many many women are exposed to risks, including femicide. However, there is activism, women continue to mobilise.

Notes

• The ECLAC (Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean) reports are recommended by Lucia.

This article has been published at Eşitlik, Adalet, Kadın Platformu